Comments on: Welcome to Atheist Ireland http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/ Happiness, Atheism and Life Tue, 09 Mar 2010 03:24:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Thomas Mckenna http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-34043 Thomas Mckenna Sat, 29 Aug 2009 04:37:41 +0000 http://www.michaelnugent.com/?p=901#comment-34043 Hi Keith, Yeah.....apologies for the deist label.- Frankly it was more of a question than an accusation. I've spent a lot of time dealing with theist accusations of late, that any lack of certainty, is an admission that god exists, and exactly as described by the scribes of our "inspired" , - sheepherding, desert dwelling, nomadic bronze age, superstitious, forebearers. I had occasion to voice my concerns,arising from their misleading intellectual dishonesty, to the producers of a show on Revelation TV. My problem their decision to invite "Dr Grady McMurtry" to lecture on "How science proves the bible". My chief complaint , apart from the fact he has no related science/academic credentials (and they offered no disclaimer to this effect), was that he told lies that even I could refute from my limited knowledge. Further, he insisted that real scientist were some kind atheist conspiracy to undermine the authority of the almighty! Although I went to great pains to be open about my lack of believe, I pointed out that my chief concern was their apparent willingness to mislead their viewers about what scientists can really establish, and demonstrate, as fact. I had no complaints about their personal beliefs beyond that, and in fact, obvious dishonesty was not the way to validate their faith. Wouldn't REAL experts help everyone get at the truth - whatever it was? Of course they immediately made it a point of my atheism! The reply I got was from their intellectual "champion" Tim Vince, who immediately suspended his unquestioning belief in a 6,000 Y.O. universe, and opened with "Where did the energy come from for the Big Bang?"....He went on to explain that Einsteinian physics prove God, and that the formation of matter, and the evolution, against the odds,of cellular life etc... was a miracle that could only be supernatural. Needless to say I dealt with these points as easily as any rational mind would. Unfortunately, that seemed to be his "A" game and he seemed to have little else left. However,undaunted in defeat, he passed me over to his "less intellectual" coleagues ,Yemi and Howard. Howard immediately passed the buck, saying that his faith comes from "supernatural experience" rather than rationality or evidence. Yemi, pretty much the same, citing an anecdote about the "laying on of hands" curing a broken arm in Africa some years ago. He also offered the quote from Isaiah about the "circle" of the earth......and how truly inspired and enlightened the biblical "prophets". In the midst of all this, I'd managed to shame an invitation to show out of them, to discuss these issues. However, they seem to be hiding from me, and have ignored my last 2 emails to discuss arrangements. The 2 points I would like to make from this is: 1. Theists ALWAYS want to make information offered (even unintentionally), that isn't exactly what they preach, seem like an evil conspiracy against all that is good. 2. Whatever they want to tell you, no matter how irrational , is to to be accepted without opposition or question, and arguments are good ONLY when they get to win, which , of course, can only happen when there is no opposition at all! As if I haven't been long winded enough, I will get to my original point......"I don't know" is one of the most beautiful phrases I can think of. It can immediatley precede "let's find out" . We then get to use our sentinece to explore reality. which is the whole point of sentience and existance in the first place. the more we can know is real, the more real existance is. Placing "God" in those places and denying the right to enquire further, denies us that great right to be cognsicent, and sensual beings human. That is why religion is the real immorality. Hi Keith,
Yeah…..apologies for the deist label.- Frankly it was more of a question than an accusation.
I’ve spent a lot of time dealing with theist accusations of late, that any lack of certainty, is an admission that god exists, and exactly as described by the scribes of our “inspired” , – sheepherding, desert dwelling, nomadic bronze age, superstitious, forebearers.
I had occasion to voice my concerns,arising from their misleading intellectual dishonesty, to the producers of a show on Revelation TV.
My problem their decision to invite “Dr Grady McMurtry” to lecture on “How science proves the bible”.
My chief complaint , apart from the fact he has no related science/academic credentials (and they offered no disclaimer to this effect), was that he told lies that even I could refute from my limited knowledge. Further, he insisted that real scientist were some kind atheist conspiracy to undermine the authority of the almighty!
Although I went to great pains to be open about my lack of believe, I pointed out that my chief concern was their apparent willingness to mislead their viewers about what scientists can really establish, and demonstrate, as fact.
I had no complaints about their personal beliefs beyond that, and in fact, obvious dishonesty was not the way to validate their faith. Wouldn’t REAL experts help everyone get at the truth – whatever it was?
Of course they immediately made it a point of my atheism!
The reply I got was from their intellectual “champion” Tim Vince, who immediately suspended his unquestioning belief in a 6,000 Y.O. universe, and opened with “Where did the energy come from for the Big Bang?”….He went on to explain that Einsteinian physics prove God, and that the formation of matter, and the evolution, against the odds,of cellular life etc… was a miracle that could only be supernatural.
Needless to say I dealt with these points as easily as any rational mind would. Unfortunately, that seemed to be his “A” game and he seemed to have little else left. However,undaunted in defeat, he passed me over to his “less intellectual” coleagues ,Yemi and Howard.
Howard immediately passed the buck, saying that his faith comes from “supernatural experience” rather than rationality or evidence.
Yemi, pretty much the same, citing an anecdote about the “laying on of hands” curing a broken arm in Africa some years ago.
He also offered the quote from Isaiah about the “circle” of the earth……and how truly inspired and enlightened the biblical “prophets”.
In the midst of all this, I’d managed to shame an invitation to show out of them, to discuss these issues.
However, they seem to be hiding from me, and have ignored my last 2 emails to discuss arrangements.
The 2 points I would like to make from this is:
1. Theists ALWAYS want to make information offered (even unintentionally), that isn’t exactly what they preach, seem like an evil conspiracy against all that is good.
2. Whatever they want to tell you, no matter how irrational , is to to be accepted without opposition or question, and arguments are good ONLY when they get to win, which , of course, can only happen when there is no opposition at all!
As if I haven’t been long winded enough, I will get to my original point……”I don’t know” is one of the most beautiful phrases I can think of. It can immediatley precede “let’s find out” . We then get to use our sentinece to explore reality. which is the whole point of sentience and existance in the first place. the more we can know is real, the more real existance is.
Placing “God” in those places and denying the right to enquire further, denies us that great right to be cognsicent, and sensual beings human.
That is why religion is the real immorality.

]]> By: Kieth Rankin http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-34130 Kieth Rankin Sat, 29 Aug 2009 00:10:13 +0000 http://www.michaelnugent.com/?p=901#comment-34130 Michael - and Thomas too, Thanks for the mail. Every thinking person does a disservice to himself/herself by inadvertently putting themselves into an ever smaller group - by thinking; sometimes better to be part of the homogenized mass. It does get lonely. Na, I do not consider myself part of the intelligentsia. Some things are rather obvious; one just has to open the eyes. Why is that so difficult? I still feel that this "event" was started by an unexplained force - that has NOTHING to do with religion; it ONLY has to do with science. It is not magic - or "supernatural". If it happened, then it is natural. And PLEASE, no accusations about being "new age". (No, you did not say that) In the event that there is a second "session" we may come back as bugs; hey, and not even the same gender. In that case, all other bugs will look normal; it will be the humans that are frightening. We may come back as animals; maybe cattle - going to the slaughterhouse! Think of the terror of these animals. Anyway, I do not want to go to "heaven". I prefer better company than the nutters. Imagine becoming an angel and growing feathers; think I would change my skin cream. One thing to consider, because we are thinkers, or hopefully so, we are more obligated to lead ethical lives, even more so than the religious types. We have no excuses. Keith Michael – and Thomas too,

Thanks for the mail. Every thinking person does a disservice to himself/herself by inadvertently putting themselves into an ever smaller group – by thinking; sometimes better to be part of the homogenized mass. It does get lonely. Na, I do not consider myself part of the intelligentsia. Some things are rather obvious; one just has to open the eyes. Why is that so difficult?

I still feel that this “event” was started by an unexplained force – that has NOTHING to do with religion; it ONLY has to do with science. It is not magic – or “supernatural”. If it happened, then it is natural. And PLEASE, no accusations about being “new age”. (No, you did not say that)

In the event that there is a second “session” we may come back as bugs; hey, and not even the same gender. In that case, all other bugs will look normal; it will be the humans that are frightening. We may come back as animals; maybe cattle – going to the slaughterhouse! Think of the terror of these animals.

Anyway, I do not want to go to “heaven”. I prefer better company than the nutters. Imagine becoming an angel and growing feathers; think I would change my skin cream.

One thing to consider, because we are thinkers, or hopefully so, we are more obligated to lead ethical lives, even more so than the religious types. We have no excuses.

Keith

]]> By: Michael Nugent http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-33917 Michael Nugent Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:37:30 +0000 http://www.michaelnugent.com/?p=901#comment-33917 Thomas and Keith, Thanks for the interesting exchange. I think this is really a difference in what words we use to describe the same concept. Keith, for me, atheism is not a claim of certainty. It is an assertion of my belief that there are no gods (or my lack of belief that there are gods, but it is still a statement about beliefs and not about certainty). To borrow your terminology and build on it, I do not "create" non-god, I assert non-god because I believe non-god based on applying reason to the apparent evidence of my senses. I can see nothing in your description of your beliefs about nature that would cause me to not describe myself as an atheist. Thomas and Keith,

Thanks for the interesting exchange. I think this is really a difference in what words we use to describe the same concept.

Keith, for me, atheism is not a claim of certainty. It is an assertion of my belief that there are no gods (or my lack of belief that there are gods, but it is still a statement about beliefs and not about certainty).

To borrow your terminology and build on it, I do not “create” non-god, I assert non-god because I believe non-god based on applying reason to the apparent evidence of my senses.

I can see nothing in your description of your beliefs about nature that would cause me to not describe myself as an atheist.

]]> By: Keith Rankin http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-33914 Keith Rankin Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:22:12 +0000 http://www.michaelnugent.com/?p=901#comment-33914 Thomas, First, thanks for the comment. Over a few pints, or coffee, we may get to a "more" united consensus; we already agree on a few things. I will not create "non-god", as atheist do. But wait, that is one of the possibilities. What I said was the whole "mess" was started by some force and at some time - then I used the silliest "force", a cardboard box, that I could think of. Truth is, it may be that weird. I have a t-shirt and on the front is imprinted, "Sartre's answering machine: I'm not here,You're not here, Don't leave a message, There is no beep." So there is no start to this by a "force" - and you are not here either. I was a little ticked at being called a "deist". Religion, ALL of it, is an invention, held up by the most vulgar lies and brutal murders - in the name of "their loving gods." On the other hand, Nature is. Nature has never revealed to anyone "why" - not even "the chosen few." Nature is not "nice"; nature just is. By necessity, either the cat catches the deer and eats or it dies. It is brutal and nasty. When mankind has finally blown himself to bits and taken his invented gods with him, the bugs and worms will come out of some hiddy-hole and they will rule the world. Mankind will just be an insignificant notation in history. It will just be another part of an apparently, random acts of nature. Yin and Yang! When one is as evil as that "good Christian", G. W. Bush, equilibrium must be reestablished. It is my hope that he is repaid. But I have no idea of nature; maybe it IS evil that rules all. But just in case, I still believe the axim, "Don't do wrong if you do not want it done in return." Keith Rankin Thomas,

First, thanks for the comment. Over a few pints, or coffee, we may get to a “more” united consensus; we already agree on a few things.

I will not create “non-god”, as atheist do. But wait, that is one of the possibilities. What I said was the whole “mess” was started by some force and at some time – then I used the silliest “force”, a cardboard box, that I could think of. Truth is, it may be that weird. I have a t-shirt and on the front is imprinted, “Sartre’s answering machine: I’m not here,You’re not here, Don’t leave a message, There is no beep.” So there is no start to this by a “force” – and you are not here either.

I was a little ticked at being called a “deist”. Religion, ALL of it, is an invention, held up by the most vulgar lies and brutal murders – in the name of “their loving gods.”

On the other hand, Nature is. Nature has never revealed to anyone “why” – not even “the chosen few.” Nature is not “nice”; nature just is. By necessity, either the cat catches the deer and eats or it dies. It is brutal and nasty. When mankind has finally blown himself to bits and taken his invented gods with him, the bugs and worms will come out of some hiddy-hole and they will rule the world. Mankind will just be an insignificant notation in history. It will just be another part of an apparently, random acts of nature.

Yin and Yang! When one is as evil as that “good Christian”, G. W. Bush, equilibrium must be reestablished. It is my hope that he is repaid. But I have no idea of nature; maybe it IS evil that rules all. But just in case, I still believe the axim, “Don’t do wrong if you do not want it done in return.”

Keith Rankin

]]> By: Thomas Mckenna http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-33825 Thomas Mckenna Fri, 28 Aug 2009 06:38:22 +0000 http://www.michaelnugent.com/?p=901#comment-33825 No argument here, except in what seems to be your definition of atheism! I am an atheist because I'm agnostic. That is to say: I do not believe in any God because there is no reason to state any knowledge of one. However, philosophically speaking, I am not omniscient enough to assert with certainty, that someone's definition of God doesn't exist somewhere in the universe. I can however, state with certainty that Christianity, for example, is the creation of human minds more morally and educationally fallible than mine. Also,I can assert that much of the information that they base their beliefs on is incorrect. I think you'll find that most atheists are agnostics and vice versa. Only theists fully claim knowledge, which is why they are philosophically illogical, or need to be intellectually dishonest, to support their faith , in my opinion According to your description, you could better describe yourself as a deist. No argument here, except in what seems to be your definition of atheism!
I am an atheist because I’m agnostic. That is to say: I do not believe in any God because there is no reason to state any knowledge of one.
However, philosophically speaking, I am not omniscient enough to assert with certainty, that someone’s definition of God doesn’t exist somewhere in the universe.
I can however, state with certainty that Christianity, for example, is the creation of human minds more morally and educationally fallible than mine.
Also,I can assert that much of the information that they base their beliefs on is incorrect.
I think you’ll find that most atheists are agnostics and vice versa. Only theists fully claim knowledge, which is why they are philosophically illogical, or need to be intellectually dishonest, to support their faith , in my opinion

According to your description, you could better describe yourself as a deist.

]]> By: K Rankin http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-33512 K Rankin Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:07:28 +0000 http://www.michaelnugent.com/?p=901#comment-33512 I will be brief. I believe in no man-made religions nor do I believe in any of the thousands of "one-true religions". From there there is a divergence with atheist. We are so primitive; science as yet, has not even provided a way to communicate with persons who have been altered by death. No one was around 13 billion years ago as "this" universe began. There is now open talk of the multi universe. Even with these supposed, unending universes, the question could be posed in a different way: How small are they?. I wasn't around to see it start. I assume it "started" - and by a "force". Possibly that force would be one envisioned by the worse sci-fi idea: a cardboard box in a galactic desert. Who says "it" even has to be animate? A thinking person can only say that they don't know. That is a rational, truthful answer. Inventing an atheist answer is not truthful. One can only be an agnostic. I will be brief.

I believe in no man-made religions nor do I believe in any of the thousands of “one-true religions”. From there there is a divergence with atheist.

We are so primitive; science as yet, has not even provided a way to communicate with persons who have been altered by death. No one was around 13 billion years ago as “this” universe began. There is now open talk of the multi universe. Even with these supposed, unending universes, the question could be posed in a different way: How small are they?.

I wasn’t around to see it start. I assume it “started” – and by a “force”. Possibly that force would be one envisioned by the worse sci-fi idea: a cardboard box in a galactic desert. Who says “it” even has to be animate?

A thinking person can only say that they don’t know. That is a rational, truthful answer. Inventing an atheist answer is not truthful. One can only be an agnostic.

]]> By: european atheist http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-27394 european atheist Sat, 18 Jul 2009 01:01:20 +0000 http://www.michaelnugent.com/?p=901#comment-27394 1961 verabschiedet das stark katholisch geprägte Land dazu ein entsprechendes Gesetz. Dieses sei durch die neue Reform jetzt klarer gefasst worden, meinte der Justizminister. So muss nachgewiesen werden, dass der Übeltäter bewusst eine Störung des öffentlichen Friedens herbeiführen wollte und die Gefühle der Gläubigen erheblich verletzt habe. Mehr Rechtssicherheit also für Blasphemie-Täter? Das sieht die atheistische Organisation "Atheist Ireland" anders: Die Strafe von 25.000 Euro sei drakonisch, kritisieren die Aktivisten. Sie fordern eine ersatzlose Streichung des Paragraphen. Umfragen zeigen allerdings, dass eine Mehrheit der Bevölkerung das neue Gesetz begrüßt. Rückendeckung kommt ebenso von der einflussreichen katholischen Kirche. Knapp 87 Prozent der Iren sind Katholiken. 1961 verabschiedet das stark katholisch geprägte Land dazu ein entsprechendes Gesetz. Dieses sei durch die neue Reform jetzt klarer gefasst worden, meinte der Justizminister. So muss nachgewiesen werden, dass der Übeltäter bewusst eine Störung des öffentlichen Friedens herbeiführen wollte und die Gefühle der Gläubigen erheblich verletzt habe.

Mehr Rechtssicherheit also für Blasphemie-Täter? Das sieht die atheistische Organisation “Atheist Ireland” anders: Die Strafe von 25.000 Euro sei drakonisch, kritisieren die Aktivisten. Sie fordern eine ersatzlose Streichung des Paragraphen.

Umfragen zeigen allerdings, dass eine Mehrheit der Bevölkerung das neue Gesetz begrüßt. Rückendeckung kommt ebenso von der einflussreichen katholischen Kirche. Knapp 87 Prozent der Iren sind Katholiken.

]]> By: european atheist http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-27393 european atheist Sat, 18 Jul 2009 01:00:26 +0000 http://www.michaelnugent.com/?p=901#comment-27393 Harte Zeiten für Atheisten Blasphemie-Paragraph in Irland 17.07.2009, 14:13 Von Andreas Oldag. London In Irland soll Gotteslästerung neuerdings mit einer Geldstrafe von bis zu 25.000 Euro belegt werden. Eine Mehrheit der Bevölkerung befürwortet das Gesetz. Dawkins; APGrossbild Richard Dawkins: Der britische Religionsgegner wettert gegen die Iren. (Foto: AP) Der bekennende Atheist und Bestseller-Autor ("Der Gotteswahn") Richard Dawkins zeigt sich empört. Irland sei auf dem Weg zurück ins Mittelalter, wetterte der britische Professor. In dem ohnehin schon sensiblen Verhältnis zwischen Irland und Großbritannien sorgen solche Worte für Zündstoff. Dawkins hat sich in einen innenpolitischen Streit eingemischt, der seit Tagen die Grüne Insel beschäftigt. Es geht um ein Reform eines Gesetzes zur üblen Nachrede, das auch eine Passage zur Blasphemie enthält. Danach kann Gotteslästerung neuerdings mit einer Geldstrafe von bis zu 25.000 Euro belegt werden. Das Parlament hat das Gesetz mit einer Stimme Mehrheit Mitte Juli verabschiedet. Trotz erheblicher Kritik vieler Abgeordneter verteidigte Justizminister Dermot Ahern die neuen Regelungen mit dem Hinweis auf die irische Verfassung von 1937. Dort heißt es, dass die Veröffentlichung von "gotteslästerlichem, umstürzlerischem oder unsittlichem Material" strafbar sei. Harte Zeiten für Atheisten
Blasphemie-Paragraph in Irland

17.07.2009, 14:13

Von Andreas Oldag. London

In Irland soll Gotteslästerung neuerdings mit einer Geldstrafe von bis zu 25.000 Euro belegt werden. Eine Mehrheit der Bevölkerung befürwortet das Gesetz.
Dawkins; APGrossbild

Richard Dawkins: Der britische Religionsgegner wettert gegen die Iren. (Foto: AP)

Der bekennende Atheist und Bestseller-Autor (“Der Gotteswahn”) Richard Dawkins zeigt sich empört. Irland sei auf dem Weg zurück ins Mittelalter, wetterte der britische Professor. In dem ohnehin schon sensiblen Verhältnis zwischen Irland und Großbritannien sorgen solche Worte für Zündstoff.

Dawkins hat sich in einen innenpolitischen Streit eingemischt, der seit Tagen die Grüne Insel beschäftigt. Es geht um ein Reform eines Gesetzes zur üblen Nachrede, das auch eine Passage zur Blasphemie enthält. Danach kann Gotteslästerung neuerdings mit einer Geldstrafe von bis zu 25.000 Euro belegt werden.

Das Parlament hat das Gesetz mit einer Stimme Mehrheit Mitte Juli verabschiedet. Trotz erheblicher Kritik vieler Abgeordneter verteidigte Justizminister Dermot Ahern die neuen Regelungen mit dem Hinweis auf die irische Verfassung von 1937. Dort heißt es, dass die Veröffentlichung von “gotteslästerlichem, umstürzlerischem oder unsittlichem Material” strafbar sei.

]]> By: european atheist http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-27391 european atheist Sat, 18 Jul 2009 00:58:21 +0000 http://www.michaelnugent.com/?p=901#comment-27391 1. Jehova kills the king of Israel and helps Abijah kill 500,000 Israelites. 2. An "angel of the Lord" kills 185,000 men while they sleep. 3. God-Jehova killed 70,000 mean 4. David kills 7000 men in chariots and 40,000 footmen. 5. Abishai killed 300 men with his spear. 11:20 6. The chief of David's captains killed with his own spear 800 guys at one time. 23: 7. God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites hands, and 100,000 were killed in one day. Of those that escaped, 27,000 were crushed by a falling wall. 20:28-30 8. 42,000 men are killed because someone mispronounces "shibboleth." 12:6 9. Elijah kills 450 prophets of Baal. 18:22, 10. God tells them to go to battle again and another 18,000 are killed. 20:23, 25 11. God helps the Israelites kill 25,100 Benjamites. 20:35 12. God kills 50,070 men for looking into the ark. 13. 14,700 people. Crime - complaining about the previous two. Method of execution - plague. Num.16:49. 14. Chapters 17-19 (17-18-19) tells us that David killed 22,000 Syrians and that Abishai killed 18,000 Edomites. No one expresses shame at such slaughters. 15. Moses commands the murder of approximately 100,000 young males and, roughly, 68,000 helpless women. 17. 16. God helps the Israelites kill 25,100 Benjamites. 20:35 18. God tells them to go to battle again and another 18,000 are killed. 20:23, 25 19. God tells the Israelites to send the tribe of Judah into battle and 22,000 men were killed by the Benjamites. 20:18, 21 20. Samson, with God's help, kills himself and 3000 Philistine men and women by causing a roof to collapse, setting an example for Bible-based terrorism. 16:27-30 21. God "delivers" more folks into the hands of his chosen people. "And they slew of Moab ... about 10,000 men ... and their escaped not a man." 3:28-29 22. Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8 23. Pekah killed 120,000 people in one day and enslaves 200,000 women and children "because they had forsaken the Lord God of their fathers." 28:6, 8 24. Amaziah (who "did that which was right in the sight of the Lord") killed 10,000 people; another 10,000 he left alive to throw off a cliff "that they all were broken in pieces." 25:1-2, 11-12 25. God offers David a choice of punishments for having conducted the census: 1) seven years of famine ( 1 Chr.21:1 says three years), 2) three months fleeing from enemies, or 3) three days of pestilence. David can't decide, so God chooses for him and sends a pestilence, killing 70,000 men (and probably around 200,000 women and children). 24:13 26. Shamgar kills 600 Philistines with an ox goad. Praise God. 3:31 1. Jehova kills the king of Israel and helps Abijah kill 500,000 Israelites.
2. An “angel of the Lord” kills 185,000 men while they sleep.
3. God-Jehova killed 70,000 mean
4. David kills 7000 men in chariots and 40,000 footmen.
5. Abishai killed 300 men with his spear. 11:20
6. The chief of David’s captains killed with his own spear 800 guys at one time. 23:
7. God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites hands, and 100,000 were killed in one day. Of those that
escaped, 27,000 were crushed by a falling wall. 20:28-30
8. 42,000 men are killed because someone mispronounces “shibboleth.” 12:6
9. Elijah kills 450 prophets of Baal. 18:22,
10. God tells them to go to battle again and another 18,000 are killed. 20:23, 25
11. God helps the Israelites kill 25,100 Benjamites. 20:35
12. God kills 50,070 men for looking into the ark.
13. 14,700 people. Crime – complaining about the previous two. Method of execution – plague.
Num.16:49.
14. Chapters 17-19 (17-18-19) tells us that David killed 22,000 Syrians and that Abishai killed 18,000 Edomites. No one
expresses shame at such slaughters.
15. Moses commands the murder of approximately 100,000 young males and, roughly, 68,000 helpless women.
17. 16. God helps the Israelites kill 25,100 Benjamites. 20:35
18. God tells them to go to battle again and another 18,000 are killed. 20:23, 25
19. God tells the Israelites to send the tribe of Judah into battle and 22,000 men were killed by the
Benjamites. 20:18, 21
20. Samson, with God’s help, kills himself and 3000 Philistine men and women by causing a roof to
collapse, setting an example for Bible-based terrorism. 16:27-30
21. God “delivers” more folks into the hands of his chosen people. “And they slew of Moab … about
10,000 men … and their escaped not a man.” 3:28-29
22. Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for “committing whoredom with the daughters of
Moab
10:8
23. Pekah killed 120,000 people in one day and enslaves 200,000 women and children “because they
had
forsaken the Lord God of their fathers.” 28:6, 8
24. Amaziah (who “did that which was right in the sight of the Lord”) killed 10,000 people; another
10,000 he left alive to throw off a cliff “that they all were broken in pieces.” 25:1-2, 11-12
25. God offers David a choice of punishments for having conducted the census: 1) seven years of famine (
1 Chr.21:1 says three years), 2) three months fleeing from enemies, or 3) three days of pestilence.
David can’t decide, so God chooses for him and sends a pestilence, killing 70,000 men (and probably
around 200,000 women and children). 24:13
26. Shamgar kills 600 Philistines with an ox goad. Praise God. 3:31

]]> By: european atheist http://www.michaelnugent.com/2008/12/03/welcome-to-atheist-ireland/comment-page-1/#comment-27389 european atheist Sat, 18 Jul 2009 00:55:34 +0000 http://www.michaelnugent.com/?p=901#comment-27389 The Top Ten Biblical Massacres And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him ... and he [Samson] found a new jawbone of an ass ... and slew a thousand men therewith. Judges 15:14-15 Today is the sad anniversary of the Virginia Tech massacre, the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history. On 16 April 2007, 32 students were killed and many more wounded before the shooter, Sueng-Hui Cho, committed suicide. The massacre was one of the worst in U.S. history, but it was small indeed by biblical standards. Here is a list of massacres from the Bible, in ascending order by the number of victims. The list includes only those with a single killer where the number of victims is specified. 1. Elisha (with help from God) sent two bears to kill 42 children for making fun of his bald head. 2 Kings 2:22-23 2. Abimelech killed 69 of his brothers on a stone. Judges 9:5, BT 3. Doeg the Edomite killed 85 priests and all the men, women, children, infants, oxen, donkeys, and sheep with a sword. 1 Samuel 22:18-19, BT 4. Elijah (and God) burned to death 102 men. 2 Kings 1:10-12 5. David killed 200 Philistines to purchase his first wife with their foreskins. 1 Samuel 18:25-27, BT 6. Abishai killed 300 men with a spear. 2 Samuel 23:18, 1 Chronicles 11:20, BT 7. The chief of David's captains killed either 300 (1 Chronicles 11:11) or 800 (2 Samuel 23:8) men with a spear. (Sometimes it's hard to correctly count the number of dead bodies in a massacre.) 8. Elijah killed 450 religious leaders in a prayer contest. 1 Kings 18:22-40 (The total in this massacre may have been 850 if it included the priests of the groves.) 9. Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an ox goad. Judges 3:31, BT 10. Samson killed 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass. Judges 15: 14-15, BT The Top Ten Biblical Massacres

And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him … and he [Samson] found a new jawbone of an ass … and slew a thousand men therewith. Judges 15:14-15

Today is the sad anniversary of the Virginia Tech massacre, the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history. On 16 April 2007, 32 students were killed and many more wounded before the shooter, Sueng-Hui Cho, committed suicide. The massacre was one of the worst in U.S. history, but it was small indeed by biblical standards.
Here is a list of massacres from the Bible, in ascending order by the number of victims. The list includes only those with a single killer where the number of victims is specified.

1. Elisha (with help from God) sent two bears to kill 42 children for making fun of his bald head. 2 Kings 2:22-23
2. Abimelech killed 69 of his brothers on a stone. Judges 9:5, BT
3. Doeg the Edomite killed 85 priests and all the men, women, children, infants, oxen, donkeys, and sheep with a sword. 1 Samuel 22:18-19, BT
4. Elijah (and God) burned to death 102 men. 2 Kings 1:10-12
5. David killed 200 Philistines to purchase his first wife with their foreskins. 1 Samuel 18:25-27, BT
6. Abishai killed 300 men with a spear. 2 Samuel 23:18, 1 Chronicles 11:20, BT
7. The chief of David’s captains killed either 300 (1 Chronicles 11:11) or 800 (2 Samuel 23:8) men with a spear. (Sometimes it’s hard to correctly count the number of dead bodies in a massacre.)
8. Elijah killed 450 religious leaders in a prayer contest. 1 Kings 18:22-40
(The total in this massacre may have been 850 if it included the priests of the groves.)
9. Shamgar killed 600 Philistines with an ox goad. Judges 3:31, BT
10. Samson killed 1000 men with the jawbone of an ass. Judges 15: 14-15, BT

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